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Thursday, March 28, 2024

Guest Opinion: To live in peace, part II

Geoffrey Wildanger was 100 percent right in his assertion that the job of an ambassador is to represent the views of their government and improve their country’s relations. So I can see why he did not want to engage with Akiva Tor about Israel.  

With that said, I have now written two pieces in the Aggie, calling for and encouraging dialogue between students, all of which have fallen on deaf ears. Not one single response asking to talk about a peaceful future, and for that, I ask you, Mr. Wildanger, and the UCD student body, why? Are you not interested in living in peace? Not interested in a two-state agreement? Because more than anything else, I would like to see my friends and family not have to serve in an army (all ethical/political judgments aside – all countries maintain a defensive force of sorts) and engage in conflicts. I’d love to be able to know 100 percent that they will return from their army service and not be put in danger. I would love to be able to spend time in Israel and not worry about safety. I would love for our peoples to live in peace, for me to be able to see the beauties of the West Bank and for Palestinians to travel freely without checkpoints or fences. 

This cannot happen without peace. Come, let’s talk, and start a true dialogue and one day: “We will learn to live together, between olive groves. Children will live without fear, without borders, and without bomb shelters. On the graves the grass of peace and love will blossom,” Yehonatan Geffen said. 

I recognize that my request is not an easy one. Both sides are at fault, and both sides will continue to remain in a stalemate until people are willing to focus on what unites us as people rather than what divides us.  

Let’s get together and talk, whether its about baseball, food or TV – it’s the first step. One day, once we know each other, it will be a whole lot easier to start talking about the harder stuff, the future and how to put an end to a conflict I fear might never end. Please, let us engage in a dialogue.  Let’s push the two peoples forward, and hopefully, towards peace.

I’ll be standing at the Flagpole at the MU on Friday at noon. Come meet me there. 

ARI POLSKY is a senior studio major.

22 COMMENTS

  1. Kate’s game:

    Bringing other religions down to the level of Islam is one of the most popular strategies of Muslim apologists when confronted with the spectacle of Islamic violence. Remember Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber? Why pick on Islam if other religions have the same problems?

    The Truth:

    Because they don’t.

    Regardless of what his birth certificate may or may not have said, Timothy McVeigh was not a religious man (in fact, he stated explicitly that he was agnostic). At no time did he credit his deeds to religion, quote Bible verses, or claim that he killed for Jesus. His motives are very well documented through interviews and research. God is never mentioned.

    The so-called “members of other faiths” alluded to by Muslims are nearly always just nominal members who have no active involvement. They are neither inspired by, nor do they credit religion as Muslim terrorists do – and this is what makes it a very different matter.

    Islam is associated with Islamic terrorism because that is the association that the terrorists themselves choose to make.

    Muslims who compare crime committed by people who happen to be nominal members of other religions to religious terror committed explicitly in the name of Islam are comparing apples to oranges.

    Yes, some of the abortion clinic bombers were religious (as Muslims enjoy pointing out), but consider the scope of the problem. There have been six deadly attacks over a 36 year period in the U.S. Eight people died. This is an average of one death every 4.5 years.

    By contrast, Islamic terrorists staged nearly ten thousand deadly attacks in just the six years following September 11th, 2001. If one goes back to 1971, when Muslim armies in Bangladesh began the mass slaughter of Hindus, through the years of Jihad in the Sudan, Kashmir and Algeria, and the present-day Sunni-Shia violence in Iraq, the number of innocents killed in the name of Islam probably exceeds five million over this same period.

    In the last six years, there have been perhaps a dozen or so religiously-inspired killings by people of all other faiths combined. No other religion produces the killing sprees that Islam does nearly every day of the year. Neither do they have verses in their holy texts that arguably support it. Nor do they have large groups across the globe dedicated to the mass murder of people who worship a different god, as the broader community of believers struggles with ambivalence and tolerance for a radical clergy that supports the terror.

    Muslims may like to pretend that other religions are just as subject to “misinterpretation” as is their “perfect” one, but the reality speaks of something far worse.

  2. And, arafat, I just read over your posts. You claim that I don’t respond to your points.

    Well, one of your points is that dialog* (we’re in America right?) is a dream. Is this not dialog?

    You say where you find Islam you find violence and oppression. Well, where you find Christianity you find capitalism. Certainly, Christianity does not condone capitalism. Jesus would not. I’ve already noted how our government supports violent regimes and oppresses secular nationalism (as it did in Egypt before). It certainly did not support the recent and successful uprising in Egypt until it was certain that it wouldn’t be stopped. Who was it again that rebelled against the oppressive Mubarak (BFF of US)?? Hmmm, I could have sworn that it was a bunch of Muslims in there leading that rebellion, but no. That couldn’t be because Islam only exists where there is oppression. They probably all converted once they succeeded in overthrowing their dictator.

    Also, on a personal note, since I feel like we’re getting so close through all this dialog: I feel like you must not have any Muslim or Arab friends. If so, how do you manage to do that living in Davis?

  3. LOL, Arafat, honestly read over what you wrote. I’ve seen the link already that you posted and I in fact pulled my bible quote from there.

    What does Dawkins being a bigot have to do with Ahmadinejad? I mean there are so many things wrong with your arguments that it hardly seems worth getting into them. But, obviously you are trying to use bad people like Ahmadinejad who “practice” a religion to condemn the religion. You know that’s fallacious. Hitler was Christian. So Christianity is evil. Bush is Christian so Christianity is evil. The prime ministers of Israel have been Jewish. So Judaism is evil. This kind of argument is so absurd that it’s barely worth pointing out the absurdity, but there you go.

    So, let’s address some more ridiculously obvious fallacious arguments (sigh)..

    1. he term Arab is not equivalent to Muslim. I feel as though I must have misunderstood you trying to dispute this obvious fact because it is an indisputable fact. The biggest Islamic country is Indonesia. They are obviously not Arab. The largest Muslim population is held by India. Obviously not Arab. Lupe Fiasco is not Arab. Neither was Malcolm X. Neither is that crazy Jew dude (don’t remember his name) who moved to I think Gaza and converted to Islam (not supporting his views- he’s a loon (interviewed by your BFF Dawkins)). Islam is a religion. Many Arabs are Christian. There are plenty of Christian Palestinians, Lebanese, Egyptians, etc. If you didn’t understand the difference before then I don’t know if my explanation (of obvious common knowledge) will help you, but I tried.

    2. Christianity is a huge offender of bloodshed in the name of religion. Look at all the Catholics of Latin America. How do you think they became Catholic back in the day? How were the Arabs and Jews driven out of Spain back in the day? Are you really pretending to not know about the Crusades? This is again really obvious, so I don’t know if it’s even worth pointing out to you.

    Some of your sentences I don’t even understand, honestly. Are you drunk? I have to point out because I am (annoyingly) a grammar stickler, and since you are trying to quote me, I would never say anything is different *than* anything else. Something can only be different *from* something else.

    I do like how you call me Kate, as I find it endearing. Only my close friends and family call me that. 🙂

    And to AP, I still feel like you’re not getting what I’m saying. Zionists and anti-Zionists getting along is not the problem. We are not Israelis and Palestinians. Zionists and anti-Zionists already do get along (on a personal, social level). Anti-Zionists need to talk to our government, not Zionists. The only control we have over peace is going to our government to stop the crimes Israel’s gov is committing. Zionists and anti-Zionists talking about what kind of solution might work will do nothing for peace. It’s not up to us. I don’t mean to sound aggressive at all, and I respect that, unlike our friend “Arafat” who I don’t believe represents your views, you don’t seem to mean to be aggressive either. I just disagree with you.

    And lastly, as an apologist is someone who defends a view that is held by a minority, thank you for acknowledging this about me. I suppose I am an apologist for a lot of oppressed groups.

    If you wish to nitpick about violence in different religions, go ahead, but I don’t know what your goal is (as I noted earlier it seems it must be one of two hypocritical possibilities). All of the religions I know of are to me, to be perfectly honest, irrational. I’m disgusted by violence anywhere, and religion is often used by the insane and the demented to defend violence, intolerance, and irrational beliefs. However, I very highly respect everyone’s right to believe whatever they choose. Religion is very important to a lot of people and it fulfills them. I think that is wonderful. I think religion teaches people good things and it inspires much charity. (I don’t think religion is necessary for morals or for charity, but certainly more than it is used for evil it is used for good). You seem to want to start a witch hunt. Why are you so afraid, “Arafat”? Has any Muslim or Arab done you wrong ever? Have you ever been to a Muslim event? If Muslims are so violent, then why don’t you be the go ahead and lead an army against them when they come out and finally admit to their plot to take over the world. Go ahead and be ready to defend yourself. We all know you won’t let some raghead convert you. But seeing as that’s not happening, what are you fighting for? I get it. Humans are scary beings. They scare the hell outta me. I get that humans have a history of fearing imagined enemies. Humans are damn scary so I can understand the paranoia. But, why don’t you try to learn from history and not let the fear of these imagined enemies consume you. The Japs, the witches, the Commies didn’t take over the world.

    Fiiiiiiiiiiiinal note:

    I tried looking over to figure out what repeating what I said about Dawkins and Churchill was supposed to achieve. I don’t really understand. I guess if you’re trying to say prominent figures haven’t been bigots, then again your argument is too obviously defeated. Were our founding fathers not obvious bigots? No? Damn, where’d all these black people come from?? Are intellectuals not bigots? Hmmmm, that doesn’t quite match up with what I’ve read by Darwin.

    Like I said before, you don’t put forth worthy arguments. So to all the Zionists out there, don’t worry, I don’t believe arguing with Arafat is fair to you.

  4. katielicious tells us Ricahrd Dawkins, Winston Churchill and others whom I have quoted here are bigots.

    kate loves calling people bigots. What does that make her?

    So Richard Dawkins is a bigot according to Kate, and Winston Churchill too. What does that make Ahmadinejad, Kate?

    Kate also tells us Arabs are different than Muslims. Yet the leader of Sudan is a genocidal maniac but he’s not an Arab, is he Kate?

    And what of the leaders of the Taliban? Are they Arabs or Afghanis? (By the way, Kate, Afghanistan was once a peaceful Buddhist nation, but MUSLIMS killed or forcibly converted all the Buddhists and now Afghanistan is 100% Muslim. Are these Afghani Muslims of Arab descent is that why they commit genocide?)

    I’m just trying to maek sense of your logic, Kate, which is hard to do since you won’t “engage” me because I am like Richard Dawkins and Winston Churchill. Who will you “engage” with the SJP of UC/Davis? Is that your idea of unbigoted people?

  5. katielicious,

    It’s pretty clear your goal is to be a Muslim apologist, by which I mean you will go to any length to present Islam as something better than it is.

    Islam is violent. Mohammed was a violent warlord who ruled with fear and for whom oppression was part and parcel of his rule. You can try to spin it anyway you want but all one needs do is read the Qur’an to see that Islam is as I present it and not as you state.

    Mohammed and Jesus were as different as night and day. And no matter what you write or suggest to teh contrary Christianity and Islam are as night is to day as well.

    Here’s the truth whether not that it will matter to you:

    http://www.meforum.org/2159/are-judaism-and-christianity-as-violent-as-islam

  6. “If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky, and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death”

    -good ole Bible

  7. Whatever violence and oppression is in the Koran is also in the Bible, as these religions formed during violent times. You must not think that all Christians believe the Crusades were honorable or sponsored by the morals they believe Christianity today to teach (although certain Christians, like Bush, are not in this group). That the 3 major western religions are rooted in violent times is not testimony to the idea that followers support this violence today. Why don’t you visit a mosque and see what goes on there. They are not calling for violence. Churches are not calling for violence. Synagogues are not calling for violence. Ancient followers of these religions certainly did.

  8. Further, I was not claiming that Mr. Wildanger or other parties dont want peace, I was asking it as a rhetorical question. I am sure that everyone would like nothing more than to have a peaceful living arrangement.

    With that said, I was just curious why nobody has been willing to even talk. As I said, it wont solve everything, but its a step forward.

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